Forum - View topicDoes Anime News Network encourage fansubbing?
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
 Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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In this week's Answerman I noticed the Answerfan's responses for best summer releases. This is directed at analyzing all the new summer anime shows that have been released and currently airing in Japan. Those fans privileged enough to have access to these shows have every right to give their reviews. However not all are privileged as such and must resort to downloading subtitled, digital copies that are available through various means on the internet.
This is not intended as a rant or criticism but these sort of discussions I feel represents a website that reflects a very open view on fansubbing. For people to feel like valued contributors they will need to be able to view new releases that can sometimes only be accessed in English through fansubbing. I don't know if this paints ANN in a good light with some of our industry professionals, and Japanese correspondents. They aren't exactly blind to the notion that all of our users aren't authorized to view new release content purely for critique and informational purposes. Is it really necessary to be so cutting edge that we can almost completely disregard the North American releases as the fresh new series to look at? Personally I'm excited about the Gunslinger Girl sequel and some of the new shows available on Crunchyroll. I choose not to download fansubs and talking about domestic releases as the newest thing used to be more commonplace in the past. Why encourage a community so centered on new releases intended for the Japanese speaking market first? |
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braves
 Posts: 2309 Location: Puerto Rico (but living in Texas) |
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In the case of the recent Answerman question, I didn't see it as him encouraging fansubs, though I do admit that I did a double take because I haven't seen a question like that before in one of ANN's articles. I saw it more along the lines of "guess Answerman finally ran out of questions to ask."
I think that ANN doesn't necessarily encourage fansubbing, but they obviously want to promote simulcasting with the video portion of the site and all. I do see where you're going on the topic of discussions concerning the latest shows, but again, I do not feel that they encourage discussion on these shows- only that they allow it. You can easily talk about the latest R1 releases or some other broad topic concerning anime. Not to mention the numerous threads in the Talkback section where anyone can contribute, though I really consider it a place to sit back and watch given how it's been lately. So in the end, I haven't seen anything from ANN in regards promoting or discouraging posters' behaviors except that they want good etiquette from them. |
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zanarkand princess
 Posts: 1484 |
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Eh I've heard almost everyone on the staff say multiple times that ANN is neutral on the matter. They don't encourage it but have never discouraged it either. I don't know why the answerfans question would throw anyone for a loop considering the fact that ANN does previews of new series in Japan that are obviously fansubs for the most part and only sometimes streaming, not to mention the fact that we can have threads about series unavailable in America. They also put the industry/fansub panel up on the site and Publish articles about the industry that encourage anti piracy(from the industry point of view I mean.)
I think ANN's sponsors and members of the industry realize that people who spend time on an anime related forum/news site tend to watch fansubs or read manga scanlations. A lot of those fans buy anime and manga when it's released in the US and I think one of the reasons that ANN has become well respected is because it doesn't take a pro industry or pro fansub stance. Just like when people were getting upset about the One Piece leak article. ANN is a news organization first and foremost made up of staff and members with different opinions of fansubs but as a whole ANN has no official stance. |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23833 |
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ANN's approach to fansubbing is contradictory. On the one hand, they won't allow any discussion about which are the best fansubbing sites, which would be highly useful. Posters cannot even PM each other with links. On the other hand, posters are allowed to start and participate in discussion threads of current shows that are not available outside of Japan EXCEPT through fansub sites. Kind of a hypocritical approach if you ask me, but it's not that hard to figure out the reason for it.
Ah, the joys of corporate ownership. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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...which corporation owns us, again? Please refresh my memory. |
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Bargain Hunter Posts: 23833 |
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I thought ANN was owned by ADV.
eta: I just checked ANN's wikipedia page and I'm obviously wrong; I thought I had read that somewhere. So then I have to ascribe ANN's bizarre fansubbing policy (i.e. don't give specific fansub links but discuss shows you can only find through fansubs) to its understandable desire to keep on good terms with distribs. Unless there is some angle I'm not seeing, in which case any ANN staffer should feel free to set me right. |
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Mad_Scientist
 SubscriberModerator  Posts: 3011 |
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That would be news to me. I'm fairly certain it isn't the case. That said, ANN does have partnerships with various anime companies now, with their streaming videos, and even in the past ANN would obviously want to keep a cordial relationship with anime companies. I don't see the decision to not allow links to fansubing sites as hypocrisy, I see it as prudence. I doubt Funimation is going to care that much if ANN staff member Theron Martin reveals that he watched Eden of the East via fansubs or talks about the show with other fansub watchers. But they might have a different viewpoint if the official ANN forums had links to said EotE fansubs on them. As some have previously stated, ANN's official stance on fansubs is fairly neutral I believe, but staff members all have their own opinions which may differ from that, and from the viewpoints of each other. And they aren't shy about expressing it. This is the one time where ANN might seem inconsistant about fansubs. But it's not really, it's just that Bamboo and Theron and whoever are all their own people, and they aren't always going to agree with each other just because they work for the same company. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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I applaud your imagination, but even I know that ANN isn't owned by any industry-related company. In the FAQ they say they are not for sale; it would seem that they take pride in being independent. Now, I too am puzzled over the Jekyll and Hyde approach that ANN has taken with regards to fansubs, and discussions thereof. But I get the feeling (and anyone, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) that ANN has adopted the stance it has to avoid litigation. It would be very costly to fight a lawsuit, and all it takes is some half-baked judge somewhere in the States to order ANN off the Internet and it's basically screwed. While most fansub sites can change their names and quickly get up and running, it is much much much harder for a site like ANN to do so (the fact it is a company and not five friends in a garage probably makes life difficult in that regard). Oh, and I suppose there is the whole reputation thing; ANN tries to be as neutral as possible. Like I said, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23833 |
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I would argue there is no contradiction between a policy being both prudent and hypocritical.
Huh? ANN's official fansub policy is openly anti: post a fansub link and you'll be banned. PM another poster in private with a fansub link and, if discovered, you'll be banned. That hardly qualifies as "neutral." ANN's unofficial fansub policy is passively pro-fansub: hey, start a thread about a current show that you can only see from a fansub site, we don't care! I know it seems I'm busting ANN's chops here, but I recognize they are between a rock and a hard place. If they attempted an actual consistent policy they'd have to either allow links to fansub sites which would piss off their partners - partners whose participation makes ANN a better site - or they'd have to not allow discussion of shows that are obviously accessed by fansubs - which means only four people would ever post here. I think their current policy is the best one, despite being openly contradictory. |
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Annf
Posts: 578 |
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In and of itself, discussing shows that don't have official foreign TV or internet broadcasts doesn't automatically imply copyright violation. We can give individuals the benefit of the doubt and assume they are fluent in Japanese and were either in Japan when they watched/recorded them or have a subscription to one of the personal TV receiver-relay-over-internet services that Japanese courts ruled legal earlier this year. (e.g. http://nihonnamaterebi.com/ )
There are also current shows with official free Japanese internet streams with no region restriction, such as Umi Monogatari, Princess Lover, Basquash, Guin's Saga, Element Hunters, Ontama, Tears to Tiara, and Umineko no Naku Koro Ni. Past episodes and older shows are watchable for small rental fees on Japanese online streaming rental sites (Bandai Channel, etc.) or by buying the Japanese DVD/BD release. (Although, when ANN's own forum mods talk about their trouble with using HD TV encodes they downloaded from fansub groups, or a forum has a long-running thread with "(for scanlation readers)" in its title, that's a little harder to write off.) |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23833 |
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Ha ha, you crack me up. You are a lawyer, yes? To answer the question posed in this thread's title, I only have to use myself as an example. When I first started posting here, I was so noobish that when I saw people discussing current shows in the anime forum, I actually posted a question asking if there was some anime channel in the U.S. I wasn't aware of where people were watching these shows. Oh, was I ever that young? Anyhoo, I was set straight and curiosity got the best of this particular cat. Now, I am an adult of (somewhat) sound mind and body and fully responsible for my own actions. I can't blame ANN for the fact I sought out fansubs because I was curious about shows that were being discussed in its forum, but you can see where I'm going with this, right? |
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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And this statement itself is contradictory, but I see where you're coming from. I do think that if ANN does adopt a firmer stance it will be in favor of the less fansub talk and more pro-industry mindset. Why? Because it's never really gravitated toward fansub neutrality, it's always been like that as long as I've been lurking here. It's just that the industry is in shambles now, and fansubs are so much more easily accessed by the general anime fan than before. So what was my objective with this thread, well I was on hiatus from participating in ANN for a while, 'm anti-fansub now and I'd like to see a well respected site like ANN give somewhat of an impression that it supports the anti-fansub movement. |
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ManOfRust
 Posts: 1935 Location: Seattle, WA |
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AFAIK, ANN is based in Canada. I don't think the Canadians have the same insane you can sue anyone for any reason no matter how trivial legal system we have descended into here in the US, so I doubt they are worried too much about what any US judges might think. Past, I can kind of see where you are coming from, but ANN has always walked a fine line on this issue. Having been around here for a while, you know as well as any of us that this is one of those issues that is hotly debated whenever it comes up so I doubt finding a reasonable middle ground is an easy thing to do. While you are in favor of seeing a less sympathetic approach towards fansub coverage, there are many others who think ANN is too stodgy and restrictive. This is a feedback forum, so I guess it's good to express an opinion on the matter, but I think they are doing a reasonable job of toeing the line especially given the fact that said line is probably pretty hard to see sometimes. There is a healthy contingent of both regular and sporadic forum participants who do not watch fansubs or only very rarely do so. I don't think the presence of people here discussing the latest and greatest as it airs in Japan needs to take away from our enjoyment of discussing the latest and greatest being released here in R1. |
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ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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It's a tricky issue but I think ANN hits just the right balance. Fansubs are illegal and as such, they cannot allow people to post links to them. That said, you can't expect them to act as if fansubs simply don't exist. By all rights the vast majority of fans do at least sometimes use fansubs. Not only is it pointless to try and hide it, it's such a common means of watching anime that it's just not something you can ignore as an anime site. It would be like a movie site only allowing discussion of things once they were released on DVD and not during their theatrical run. Besides, there's nothing wrong with simple discussion. Yes, clearly if people are discussing a brand new (non streamed) anime, they used fansubs. They're going to do that anyway though.
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Well, there is the case of The Pirate Bay (oh how the mighty have fallen), but by and large, I see your point. I know tempest (A.K.A. Christopher MacDonald) lives in Vancouver, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was based in Canada. |
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