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INTEREST: Ken Akamatsu Comments on Casting POC Voice Actors in American Cartoons, Japanese Anime


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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 8461
Location: Penguinopolis
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:53 pm Reply with quote
While the voice acting changes recently are obviously empty, symbolic gestures that don't have anything to do with the real problem of police violence (this is like having a flat tire and changing your bumper sticker to fix it), some good can perhaps come from it by giving PoC voice actors a chance they might not normally get because of hiring biases (it's not always a meritocracy).

And Japan has its own issues with discrimination.
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Dragon_Kaiser



Joined: 27 Aug 2018
Posts: 119
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:02 pm Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
While the voice acting changes recently are obviously empty, symbolic gestures that don't have anything to do with the real problem of police violence (this is like having a flat tire and changing your bumper sticker to fix it), some good can perhaps come from it by giving PoC voice actors a chance they might not normally get because of hiring biases (it's not always a meritocracy).

And Japan has its own issues with discrimination.


Of course it has its own issues with discrimination I’ve had first hand experience with it while I lived there, but what do you expect from a country that’s been led by the right wing for so many years.
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Greed1914



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 4442
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:12 pm Reply with quote
One of the best parts about voice acting is a person's appearance doesn't have to correlate to the character on screen. I've heard more than a few voice actors express that sentiment and say how it helps avoid typecasting because they don't have to look the part.

There is also obviously the problem of trying to cast based on an appearance that may or may not turn out to be accurate. What do you do with, for example, a show with a setting modeled after European medieval times, but the characters have Japanese names? Isekais would be a bit a challenge since many of them involve a Japanese person reincarnating with a different appearance. My Next Life as a Villainess involves a Japanese girl reincarnating into a character with a name and living in a setting that would suggest she is closer to European now. What do you do with that other than cast whomever gives the best audition?
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12skippy21



Joined: 25 Nov 2008
Posts: 785
Location: York, England
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:21 pm Reply with quote
Concerning topics related to the arts and education, the emphasis should not be on casting but portraying careers as being open to all.

Not just concerning POC, but women as well, the focus on creating a more even playing field has only developed over the last 30-40 years in any meaningful way but you are trying to tackle an issue wherein there are not enough persons to fill roles.This inevitably leads to arguments of bias or tokenism.

It is a start, but if you cannot attract a variety of people to your profession, this topic is never going away.
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Dragon_Kaiser



Joined: 27 Aug 2018
Posts: 119
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:33 pm Reply with quote
Greed1914 wrote:
One of the best parts about voice acting is a person's appearance doesn't have to correlate to the character on screen. I've heard more than a few voice actors express that sentiment and say how it helps avoid typecasting because they don't have to look the part.

There is also obviously the problem of trying to cast based on an appearance that may or may not turn out to be accurate. What do you do with, for example, a show with a setting modeled after European medieval times, but the characters have Japanese names? Isekais would be a bit a challenge since many of them involve a Japanese person reincarnating with a different appearance. My Next Life as a Villainess involves a Japanese girl reincarnating into a character with a name and living in a setting that would suggest she is closer to European now. What do you do with that other than cast whomever gives the best audition?


Yea that’s great and all but when the English voice acting industry is predominantly white people and very few BIPOC in comparison the BIPOC actors really only get the one line token roles. While the white actors get both the white/BIPOC roles that’s why they get to say “it doesn’t matter how you look to be a voice actor” it’s really funny how it’s really only white voice actors saying that. Voice Actors that are BIPOC don’t get the same chance to audition for bigger roles because they are type casted for one off token characters and yet when a major role that is a character of color they’re not even given a chance at the role. Because it’s easier to go lets get Troy Baker or Nolan North or Laura Bailey and Jennifer Hale to play these characters rather than actually auditioning someone who wouldn’t get that opportunity in the first place.(Note I’m not calling Troy, Nolan, Laura or Jennifer out I used them as examples because let’s be real they are basically in everything) If you followed any BIPOC voice actor on twitter you would’ve seen them talking about this over the last few weeks how they normally don’t get major roles where the character is white or of color and mostly get type casted roles.


Last edited by Dragon_Kaiser on Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Juno016



Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 2394
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:38 pm Reply with quote
The PoC casting issue comes with two points:
1) Portrayals of these characters are more likely to reflect something less discriminatory if casted with their own race. Even in a cartoon that makes fun of all its characters (not just minorities), it's much better to stereotype your own race from within and gather laughs from everyone vs. having someone make those stereotypes for you and have it sound more like a projection than a reality.
2) There are tons of PoC/minority actors who can absolutely do a great job with voice acting roles. The reasons they haven't been hired as often is mostly due to systematic racism (not necessarily by racists, and not necessarily on purpose), not a lack of talent.

I have a lot of Japanese friends, all into anime/manga, and they're pretty socially progressive, so I don't want to excuse Japan's racism just because it's homogenous, but it's also a bit much to expect them to have a complex perspective on the subject. Akamatsu-sensei himself is politically open and carries a huge variety of opinions across the whole political spectrum, mostly pushing for socially inclusive free speech, but critical of censorship of all kinds, even if the "censorship" is socially beneficial to groups otherwise silenced (for instance, an abundance of anti-foreigner propaganda can create an environment that pushes foreigners in Japan to fear giving their own opinions). I disagree with him on a lot regarding that, but I can respect his dedication to freedom of expression. I don't think it comes from a malicious place.
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Kougeru



Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 5529
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:41 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
but it's standard in Japan to leave an explanatory note about that while preserving the work as it was in the past.
this is a bit funny coming from Japan, a country that likes to avoid talking about WII as much as they can.

This whole Simpsons (and Family Guy) thing is ridiculous so I agree with him. When it comes to voice, the only thing that matters is the acting ability. And while I'm sure people here know how I feel about anime dubs, it's literally impossible to cast them all as Japanese actors that speak English. Simply impossible. As long as the person doing the voice doesn't do an obvious racist impression that caters to racist stereotypes, then there's no issue. The role just needs to be acted with sincerity.

Ken Akamatsu's also commented on foreign influence on the manga industry ( I can only assume he means China, since the US is really an tiny tiny fraction of the foreign money flow). https://twitter.com/KenAkamatsu/status/1277578343538257921
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Ryuji-Dono



Joined: 26 Apr 2018
Posts: 1210
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:41 pm Reply with quote
Dragon_Kaiser wrote:
Greed1914 wrote:
One of the best parts about voice acting is a person's appearance doesn't have to correlate to the character on screen. I've heard more than a few voice actors express that sentiment and say how it helps avoid typecasting because they don't have to look the part.

There is also obviously the problem of trying to cast based on an appearance that may or may not turn out to be accurate. What do you do with, for example, a show with a setting modeled after European medieval times, but the characters have Japanese names? Isekais would be a bit a challenge since many of them involve a Japanese person reincarnating with a different appearance. My Next Life as a Villainess involves a Japanese girl reincarnating into a character with a name and living in a setting that would suggest she is closer to European now. What do you do with that other than cast whomever gives the best audition?


Yea that’s great and all but when the English voice acting industry is predominantly white people and very few BIPOC in comparison the BIPOC actors really only get the one line token roles. While the white actors get both white/BIPOC roles and get to say that’s why they get to say “it doesn’t matter how you look to be a voice actor” it’s really funny how it’s really only white voice actors saying that. Actors that are BIPOC don’t get the same chance to audition for bigger roles because they are type casted for one off token characters and yet when a major role that is a character of color they’re not even given a chance at the role. If you followed any BIPOC voice actor on twitter you would’ve seen them talking about this over the last few weeks.


That said, quite some of BIPOC had scored some good roles in recent years in dubbing characters not related to their races, like Zeno Robinson as Hawks in My Hero Academia, Jalen K.Cassell as Okuyasu in Diamond is Unbreakable, Gabe Kunda as Bem in BEM and so forth. It's small for sure, but still a good start.

Also, a handful of white actors (Like Chris Hackney and Ben Diskin) also spoke on this issue and support greater representation for the BIPOC


Last edited by Ryuji-Dono on Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ryuji-Dono



Joined: 26 Apr 2018
Posts: 1210
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:44 pm Reply with quote
Kougeru wrote:
Quote:
but it's standard in Japan to leave an explanatory note about that while preserving the work as it was in the past.
this is a bit funny coming from Japan, a country that likes to avoid talking about WII as much as they can.

This whole Simpsons (and Family Guy) thing is ridiculous so I agree with him. When it comes to voice, the only thing that matters is the acting ability. And while I'm sure people here know how I feel about anime dubs, it's literally impossible to cast them all as Japanese actors that speak English. Simply impossible. As long as the person doing the voice doesn't do an obvious racist impression that caters to racist stereotypes, then there's no issue. The role just needs to be acted with sincerity.

Ken Akamatsu's also commented on foreign influence on the manga industry ( I can only assume he means China, since the US is really an tiny tiny fraction of the foreign money flow). https://twitter.com/KenAkamatsu/status/1277578343538257921


Yeah, but the thing is that BIPOC don't get that chance that much and thus they deserve a better role with them.
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Kougeru



Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 5529
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:48 pm Reply with quote
Ryuji-Dono wrote:
Kougeru wrote:
Quote:
but it's standard in Japan to leave an explanatory note about that while preserving the work as it was in the past.
this is a bit funny coming from Japan, a country that likes to avoid talking about WII as much as they can.

This whole Simpsons (and Family Guy) thing is ridiculous so I agree with him. When it comes to voice, the only thing that matters is the acting ability. And while I'm sure people here know how I feel about anime dubs, it's literally impossible to cast them all as Japanese actors that speak English. Simply impossible. As long as the person doing the voice doesn't do an obvious racist impression that caters to racist stereotypes, then there's no issue. The role just needs to be acted with sincerity.

Ken Akamatsu's also commented on foreign influence on the manga industry ( I can only assume he means China, since the US is really an tiny tiny fraction of the foreign money flow). https://twitter.com/KenAkamatsu/status/1277578343538257921


Yeah, but the thing is that BIPOC don't get that chance that much and thus they deserve a better role with them.


Yes, that's absolutely true. I forgot to touch on that and came back actually to edit it in but I'll leave it as is since you brought it up.

Juno016 wrote:

2) There are tons of PoC/minority actors who can absolutely do a great job with voice acting roles. The reasons they haven't been hired as often is mostly due to systematic racism (not necessarily by racists, and not necessarily on purpose), not a lack of talent.



100%!! There's definitely more that can be done. I guess where I stand is that current roles should not be revoked, but moving forward we should address this.
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Dragon_Kaiser



Joined: 27 Aug 2018
Posts: 119
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:59 pm Reply with quote
Kougeru wrote:
Quote:
but it's standard in Japan to leave an explanatory note about that while preserving the work as it was in the past.
this is a bit funny coming from Japan, a country that likes to avoid talking about WII as much as they can.

This whole Simpsons (and Family Guy) thing is ridiculous so I agree with him. When it comes to voice, the only thing that matters is the acting ability. And while I'm sure people here know how I feel about anime dubs, it's literally impossible to cast them all as Japanese actors that speak English. Simply impossible. As long as the person doing the voice doesn't do an obvious racist impression that caters to racist stereotypes, then there's no issue. The role just needs to be acted with sincerity.

Ken Akamatsu's also commented on foreign influence on the manga industry ( I can only assume he means China, since the US is really an tiny tiny fraction of the foreign money flow). https://twitter.com/KenAkamatsu/status/1277578343538257921


Ok people are not saying make every actor the same race as the character what we are saying is that when the English voice acting industry caters more to white actors because that industry is predominantly white people and give them every role whether it be a white/BIPOC role they get it and not giving BIPOC voice actors a chance to play those roles and only giving them one off token characters with one line that matches there skin color there’s a problem. I mean funimation could’ve hired a Black voice actor to be in Panty and Stocking for the only prominent Black character in that show but they decided to go with Chris Sabat and do a stereotype so I don’t know that seemed like an easy thing to do but they didn’t.
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Kirki



Joined: 11 Jun 2019
Posts: 296
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:00 pm Reply with quote
How about casting any person as a voice actor to voice any character just by the sole prerequisite of them being good at their jobs. Has anybody thought about that oooor...??
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Ryuji-Dono



Joined: 26 Apr 2018
Posts: 1210
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:01 pm Reply with quote
Kirki wrote:
How about casting any person as a voice actor to voice any character just by the sole prerequisite of them being good at their jobs. Has anybody thought about that oooor...??


Systematic racism means that most non-white roles get merely relegated to characters related to their skin color or monster type.
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Ryuji-Dono



Joined: 26 Apr 2018
Posts: 1210
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:07 pm Reply with quote
Dragon_Kaiser wrote:
Kougeru wrote:
Quote:
but it's standard in Japan to leave an explanatory note about that while preserving the work as it was in the past.
this is a bit funny coming from Japan, a country that likes to avoid talking about WII as much as they can.

This whole Simpsons (and Family Guy) thing is ridiculous so I agree with him. When it comes to voice, the only thing that matters is the acting ability. And while I'm sure people here know how I feel about anime dubs, it's literally impossible to cast them all as Japanese actors that speak English. Simply impossible. As long as the person doing the voice doesn't do an obvious racist impression that caters to racist stereotypes, then there's no issue. The role just needs to be acted with sincerity.

Ken Akamatsu's also commented on foreign influence on the manga industry ( I can only assume he means China, since the US is really an tiny tiny fraction of the foreign money flow). https://twitter.com/KenAkamatsu/status/1277578343538257921


Ok people are not saying make every actor the same race as the character what we are saying is that when the English voice acting industry caters more to white actors because that industry is predominantly white people and give them every role whether it be a white/BIPOC role they get it and not giving BIPOC voice actors a chance to play those roles and only giving them one off token characters with one line that matches there skin color there’s a problem. I mean funimation could’ve hired a Black voice actor to be in Panty and Stocking for the only prominent Black character in that show but they decided to go with Chris Sabat and do a stereotype so I don’t know that seemed like an easy thing to do but they didn’t.


That was the early 2010s. As of now, FUNimation is working to rectify on this. BEM, Astra and My Hero Academia so far included BIPOC in major character roles.
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Dragon_Kaiser



Joined: 27 Aug 2018
Posts: 119
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:10 pm Reply with quote
Kirki wrote:
How about casting any person as a voice actor to voice any character just by the sole prerequisite of them being good at their jobs. Has anybody thought about that oooor...??


Here you go read these tweets from Deven Mack and try to understand

https://twitter.com/devenoclock/status/1276859379850121218?s=21


https://twitter.com/devenoclock/status/1229898536667566080?s=21


https://twitter.com/devenoclock/status/1277991260272328705?s=21
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